Jack Heffron is one of the most versatile writers I know. I’ve read his short fiction, creative nonfiction, books on writing, books that he has ghost written and books that he’s edited (including my own). Recently, I read some of his interviews and it brought up some questions that I wanted to ask him.

Sheila
Jack, I know from your books, from working with you as my editor and as a fellow conference teacher, that one thing that’s on your mind when you’re working is shaping material for particular markets. How do you think what you know about shaping writing influences the questions you ask your interviewee?

Jack
I usually do a good bit of preparation before an interview, learning as much as I can about the person and what questions that person has been asked before, what responses he or she has given. By the time I interview the person a shape for it has already formed in my mind. Of course, the final order of the Q&A is not necessarily the order in which the questions were asked. And often you need to ask a question a few different ways in order to get a strong answer. You have to let the subject have some time to consider the question. Then you can weave those responses into a coherent whole, creating a dialogue on the page that flows naturally and that the reader will follow as though overhearing a conversation.

Sheila
How do you prep yourself with details and knowledge before you do an interview?

 Jack
The usual stuff — Internet, magazine and newspaper articles, books. If I know someone who knows the person or has interviewed that person I might try to get a “scouting report.” Preparation is the key to any great interview. Not only is the writer better able to ask useful follow-up questions, but the writer enters the discussion with more confidence and is therefore more relaxed. That relaxed demeanor helps the subject to relax. It’s important to remember that even a well-known person who has been interviewed many times is going to feel, at the least, guarded. That person doesn’t know you and probably doesn’t trust you.

Another benefit of preparation is that the subject you’re interviewing knows you’re taking the assignment — and therefore them! — seriously. It shows you respect them and that you are worthy of respect.

Sheila
What is the most fun for you in interviewing?

Jack
For me it’s the conversation itself, finding a way to connect with the person you’re interviewing. There’s a wonderful moment in some interviews when the guards are lowered and it becomes a much more human exchange, when you’re just two people talking. At the same time, I also enjoy the mental chess game of an interview — the back and forth, the spontaneity, having to react quickly to a surprising response, to take off in an unplanned direction. A good interviewer needs a certain level of agility in that way.

As far as specific interviews that were fun, tennis great John McEnroe was a highlight for me. I’d been promised ten minutes, and was apprehensive about it because he has a reputation for being volatile. He was sitting in the back of a limo, returning to New York after shooting a commercial, and his publicist was on another phone in a three-way call. John had just published his memoir You Cannot Be Serious and the media was poised for a feeding frenzy regarding things he says in the book about his ex-wife Tatum O’Neil. Furthermore, Vanity Fair had been promised first crack at him, and I had pushed myself to the front of the line through sheer pain-in-the-ass-edness. Rather than dish about Tatum, I focused on the larger themes of the book and his life, which really were far more fascinating than rehashing a celebrity divorce. After ten minutes he obviously was engaged by the conversation. The publicist broke in to end the interview, but John said, “We can keep going.” This happened several more times, and we ended up talking for nearly a half hour. Great fun. And a lesson too: Be prepared to ask more questions than you think you’ll have time to ask. Prioritize the questions, so you get answers to the most important ones, but sometimes you end up with more time than is planned.

Another special one for me was with the writer Stephen Ambrose. I think I was the last person to interview him. He passed away less than a week later. If you’ve seen him on various documentaries you know he has a robust, passionate way of speaking and that tone came through clearly. He spent far more time and gave me far more material than I anticipated. A truly charming guy because he was so direct and felt so strongly about the people and events he covered in his books. The interview focused on an aspect of the Lewis and Clark Expedition, and surely he’d been asked most of these questions a dozen times. But he responded as if they all were new to him.

Sheila
I can feel your enthusiasm and pleasure! And what is the biggest challenge?

Jack
For me, and for a lot of interviewers, it’s shutting up and listening. Though I’ve done hundreds of interviews I still cringe when I hear myself babbling on the tape as I’m transcribing it later. Many interviewers have “Charlie Rose Syndrome,” that love for the sound of our own voices. I tell myself, “Shut up and let the person talk.” Sometimes the syndrome also can come from the adrenaline pumping through you during the interview. You’re excited or nervous and suddenly you’re babbling. You’re rephrasing your question three times when it’s obvious (later, when you play the tape) that the subject understood you perfectly the first time.

Listening to your recorded interviews plays such a crucial part in improving your skills. You can hear so much that, at the time, you didn’t hear. You hear the missed opportunity, when a door was opening, when the interview subject was heading down a fruitful path, and you were too eager to move on to the next question on your list to really hear it, to react and coax them down that path. On the other hand, you hear how you were able to put the subject at ease and how the subject’s voice came through more clearly in their responses. You hear the moment when it happened.

Interviewing celebrities can be a particular challenge. It’s very difficult because they’re so well rehearsed. They have their answers down pat and know all the tricks and they’re not about to let you break through. Their resistance usually isn’t confrontational. The savvy ones are adept at making you feel like you’re getting good material. I call that the Barbara Walters Syndrome. As you know, she’s famous for making the big stars cry during her tv interviews. But believe me those stars know exactly what they’re doing. It’s all very well rehearsed. Those interviews are much more about the cult of Barbara’s personality and the viewers’ expectations than about any real revelations of truth. The celebs pretend that you’re really getting to the heart of something, going where no journalist has gone before, as it were. The journalist feels great at the moment, and does exactly what they want him or her to do — back off. You have to keep your ego out of it and listen objectively. Ask yourself if you’re really getting the answers you need, the ones your reader (and your editor) wants.

The other tough interview is the professional athlete. They, too, are practiced in dealing with the media, but they’re also hard-wired not to do a whole lot of thinking when they’re playing their game. Most of the time they’re reacting instinctively to a situation in the game that they have practiced a million times. So when you try to find out “What were you thinking when you made the big play” or “How did you feel when…” you’re not going to get much because they honestly don’t have much to give. It’s not that they’re unintelligent, though that’s sometimes how they sound in interviews. They’re just trained not to be weighing vagaries or consequences when faced with a competitive moment. For them at that moment it’s see-the-ball hit-the-ball. So getting something from them that sheds new light in very challenging.

Sheila
Do you have tips for others who want to break into publishing or freelancing by interviewing public figures? Why is doing interviews a good idea for writers?

Jack
The key, as in any type of writing, is to start small and build your clips. You’ll have a tough time approaching a major publication with no track record. Interview local figures and hone your craft. Study your tapes. You’ll sharpen your skills, gain confidence, and have evidence to present to editors that you know what you’re doing.

Sheila
Thanks so much, Jack. You make me feel like many of us might enjoy the whole process of writing seeking, getting and writing interviews. So let’s look at one you’ve done fairly recently that was published last year in Cincinnati magazine. It’s with an athlete, so we’ll be thinking about what you might have done to have your subject shed new light.

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[The interview Cincinnati Kid: Dusty Baker appeared in the April, 2008 issue of Cincinnati Magazine.].

Cincinnati Kid: Dusty Baker
There’s a new skipper in the Reds dugout, and we got him talking about chewing tobacco versus toothpicks, the power of positive thinking, his fondness for sleeveless uniforms, and serving Pete Rose seconds.

Interview by Jack Heffron

The biggest move the Reds made during the off-season did not involve their myriad attempts to improve the pitching staff. It was bringing in a new manager — Dusty Baker, who has turned losers into winners in San Francisco and Chicago. Some fans applauded the move, others objected. But all agree that Dusty brings a new (and big-name) presence to the dugout. As the 2008 season begins, we chatted with the new skipper to find out why practice, positivity, and Australian chewing sticks are so important, and whether he’s at long last the guy who can return the Reds to glory.

How would you characterize Cincinnati as a baseball town? Is there anything unique about it?

I think it’s one of the best. I’ve thought that for a long time. And look at the geographic area the Reds draw from. When we played here, I used to look at the scoreboard to see where all the groups came from. The fan base encompasses so many states. It tells you people are willing to drive a long way to come and see us play. When I was a player I didn’t like coming to the stadium because you’d see all those people in red.

And now you’re wearing red. You’ve never worn a red uniform in your career, have you?

No, this is the first time. I like it. I’m honored to wear a Reds uniform. My son’s already got his Reds uniform, my dad has a jacket. It’s an honor.

What’s the coolest uniform you’ve ever worn — your all-time favorite?
The coolest uniform I wore in my career was the Dodger uniform. It was pearly white with the red numbers and the blue hat. That’s a cool uniform. But when I was young I always liked the Reds sleeveless uniform. Vada Pinson looked cool in that uniform. And Frank Robinson. And Big Klu, with the big arms sticking out. When I was in high school, a buddy and I talked his mom into cutting the sleeves off our uniforms. We were walking around with our skinny arms sticking out and feeling cool.

If you had to name the most important ingredient in the Reds success this year, what would it be?

I’d say health. I know it’s corny but it’s true. If you stay healthy you have a great chance to win. If you don’t stay healthy, it’s tough.

True. So then what’s the greatest challenge you face in bringing a winner here?

The greatest challenge is to change the mindset and the outlook. When you haven’t had a winning season in a while people don’t expect to have a winning season. They don’t expect to win. That’s a mindset, and we have to change it. We have to get people expecting to win. For players you do that with hard work. You do it with practice. It’s a thought process before it becomes an act. It’s about faith. It’s about positive thoughts, and positive thoughts equal positive actions. You see yourself succeeding and then you succeed. It’s a commonplace among fans and media to diminish the importance of a baseball manager — I don’t know about that. You have to have a good manager. It’s important.

Agreed. But what’s the most important contribution a manager makes to a team?

Well, you have to have good players. That’s important. And you’ve got to have them ready to play everyday. You’ve got to have them ready to work on baseball. You have to practice it and think about it. You have to visualize yourself doing it so it becomes a reaction, not a thought. A manager is very important.

Then forgive me for playing armchair psychologist for a moment. Give us a scouting report on manager Dusty Baker. What are his strengths and weaknesses?

I don’t know, man. I mean, how many people really know their own strengths and weaknesses? I guess mine as a manager are the same as mine as a person. My strengths, well, I try to remain as positive and consistent as possible. I try to be firm but fair. The players will know what to expect. You have to be consistent.

Is it true Pete Rose told you it was impossible to win in Great American Ball Park because the field is so small?

He didn’t tell me that, no, but I heard about it. First, I respect Pete Rose as much as anybody I ever played against as a ballplayer. He was a great player. And he was always good to me, even when I was a rookie. Some of the other veterans, they were just great, too. Joe Morgan, Willie Stargell, Cleon Jones, Tommie Agee. I was going for the batting title my rookie year, in a race with my roommate, Ralph Garr. And some of the veterans from other teams, they treated me well. Pete Rose took us over to his house. He came over to my house. We had pork chops and rice and beans and salad. When he asked for seconds that was a big thrill for my wife.

What about the field?

Can the Reds win there? Remember, Crosley Field was a small park. The Reds had success there. A ballpark’s dimensions depend on the available property you have to build on. That’s the way it’s always been. Think of Forbes Field, and Yankee Stadium with that short right-field porch. [Great American] is a small park, sure, and you’re conscious of it, but you want to make the other team more conscious of it. It’s your house. You’ve got to make them remember it’s your house. And you want to make it to your advantage. In a small park like that you’ve got to play better defense. You don’t want to give them extra base runners. You don’t want to walk people. Harang’s done pretty good pitching here the past couple of years, so it’s possible to pitch here. You just can’t be intimidated. You can’t give away outs.

Your trademark is your toothpick — I don’t want that to be my trademark. I’m not proud of it.

When did you start chewing them?

I started doing that when I stopped dipping smokeless tobacco. I really needed to quit. My wife hated it, my family hated it. It’s a stupid habit. I wish I’d never got started with it. So, with the toothpicks, you’ve got to replace one habit with another. That’s why I do it. They’re Australian chewing sticks. They’re good for your teeth, so I’m killing two birds. You see me doing it during games because I associate dipping with baseball.

What are Reds fans going to learn about Dusty Baker over the course of this season that they don’t know already?

You’ll probably know a lot of stuff that’s been written has been exaggerated and is untrue, especially the part about not wanting young players. That’s all they say. But it’s just not true. You look at my teams in Chicago. All I had was young players. I love being around young people. The thing of it is, you play what you’ve got. I’d love to have a whole team of young players who I can teach. The other thing is that I’m a ballplayer. I’ve been a ballplayer all my life. Not a hitter, not a thrower, but a ballplayer. Just one word — ballplayer.